This post was co-written with Tim Dreier of The One-Handed Economist; both of us are graduates of the University of Oregon in Eugene, where Deb Frisch once taught and now lives. As a matter of full disclosure, we’ve had a few scrapes with Frisch of our own, she having trolled the blog of a student magazine we both once edited. That’s covered below. For previous Blog P.I. coverage, see here and here.
The saga of Deborah Frisch, longtime comment troll and all-around kook, took another troubling, if not exactly unforeseeable turn in the last 48 hours. As far as we know, she is now the first troll of the political blogosphere to face criminal charges relating to such activity. On August 21 she was arraigned in an Oregon courtroom on charges of stalking and telephone harassment (PDF). The docket can be found at the link preceding, but is captured below for your viewing pleasure:
According to Don’t Hire Deb, a blog devoted to documenting Frisch’s outrageous behavior while depriving her own site of traffic, Frisch posted either $4,000 bail or $400 to a bondsman, and must reappear in court on September 25th. As is speculated in DHD comments and elsewhere, this likely stems not from Frisch’s well-publicized Jeff Goldstein-related misadventures (to the best of our knowledge she’s never called him) but rather similar interactions with former colleagues at University of Oregon (where she was denied tenure in 1994 and served as an adjunct until July 2001) including calling, emailing, and a quickly-removed post to her blog.
Just a few months ago, Frisch was an obscurity known only to the blogs she trolled, such as our own Oregon Commentator and Steve Verdon’s Deinonychus Antirrhopus. But at this point, she is undergoing the most severe public self-destruction we’ve seen yet. And when you consider that includes Jason Leopold and other, better-known individuals, that’s saying something. Academic John Lott and attorney Glenn Greenwald may be guilty of sock-puppetry, but that’s bush-league compared to Deb’s prolonged breakdown. Michael A. Bellesiles? A liar and a hack, but so far as we know he never ended up in jail for his antics. And no, having his Bancroft Prize revoked is not the same thing. Hell, Jayson Blair managed to spin his utter fecklessness into a book deal, as did “fabulist” Stephen Glass. Frisch, though, is in a class of her own: a vitriolic sociopath whose delusion knows almost no bounds.
For those of you just tuning in, Deb made a name for herself in the rightosphere by making altogether disturbing, one might say John Mark Karr-esque comments about Goldstein’s family. Within hours of Goldstein having publicized her identity being called out by Goldstein’s readers, Frisch resigned from a Univ. of Ariz. teaching job, thereby pre-empting a probable termination. The story got some press play in the Tucson Citizen, Eugene Register-Guard and Inside Higher Ed. Goldstein sought and obtained a restraining order against her, and that might have been the end of it.
Instead, her online behavior became even more erratic: Posting fake suicide notes, angering colleagues on an academic listserv, claiming to pursue legal action against Goldstein, Ace of Spades HQ and Matthew Heidt of Blackfive. And most strangely, attacking the folks at lefty satire blog Sadly, No!, well known for its disdain of Goldstein, and which had previously belittled the Frisch controversy. More recently she has gone so far as to heckle Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden (whom she had claimed an interest in working for) and, apparently, now managed to stalk and harass former colleagues in Oregon.
Commenters at DHD, Patterico’s Pontifications and Ace of Spades HQ have posited that the cyclical nature of Deb’s “teh crazy” implies a drinking problem. Whether a joke or conventional wisdom, the notion has has gotten so much play that after the first of Deb’s bizarre attacks, the S,N! regulars mentioned her drinking whilst tearing her a new one:
Three days later, Frisch was in a Lane County courthouse.
Over the course of a few short weeks Frisch has gone from employed university adjunct to unemployable Internet sociopath with a rap sheet. It’s one thing to troll a few right-wing sites for fun and attention, but another matter entirely to make thinly veiled threats about a man’s child, imply that he’s a pedophile, and then proceed to alienate essentially everyone in the blogosphere and more than a few in what we might call “meatspace.”
If we didn’t know any better, we’d call the whole thing unbelievable. But having followed the unfolding Frisch fiasco, it’s more than believable. It was an inevitability.
Update: Kevin Hayden from The American Street, in the comments:
As a Eugene liberal, I’m not surprised at this latest development. While many in the blogofear postulated that she’s some hero of the left for her claims to represent us, she’s actually been pretty abusive to people all over the political spectrum, online and off. … The blog that seeks to keep people from hiring her is superfluous to the reality that her rep precedes her like the trail of a slug moving backwards. My sources indicate her long and continuing pattern of trashing professional associates, many of them highly esteemed scientists and scholars, makes it unlikely that she will attain any position of note.
This sounds right to us; far from being her only target, Goldstein was just the one with the biggest soapbox. We won’t join in the clinical depression/alcoholism debate, and we certainly hope we don’t give the impression of gleefully piling on. Fortunately, the only person likely to be hurt in all this is Frisch herself — alas, not so fortunate for her.
Update 2: An interesting possibility raised in a non-political message board, found via our referrer logs:
The phone law they cited her under may not mean she used a phone. In 2006 stalking laws were amended to include posting anonymously on the internet. We’ve had trolls here who could be cited under that same law.
The poster is based in Kentucky, while Frisch was charged under Oregon laws, so we’re not sure if this is applicable or not. We haven’t had a chance to look into Oregon’s cyber-stalking laws, so we don’t know whether this is the case in California’s Canada. If anybody knows the answer, please let us know.
Update 3: Having perused Oregon’s H.B. 2918, a cyberstalking law passed in 2001 and a (perhaps too) brief summary of S.B. 1067 relating to “telephonic harrassment,” it’s our guess that this charge actually does pertain to actual use of telephones. On the other hand, IANAL, and neither is Tim.
Update 4: John Dunshee, a self-described Poor Schmuck, offers a clarification of Oregon bail procedure in the comments:
Oregon does not have bail bondsmen. The State itself takes that role. You only need to provide 10% to the jail to be released, and the truth of the matter is that in Oregon even if you have a bail amount specified, the jail can still release you on a “matrix release” without you putting up a dime. It is not at all unusual for someone to be released on a “matrix” be given a court date, fail to appear and have a warrant issued for that, be arrested again and released again. It’s all a jobs program for cops, lawyers, and social workers.
This is news to me, having never been arrested and only going through Lane County’s court system after getting caught at a university neighborhood bar with a fake ID. But I can affirm that Oregon does like its jobs programs: For a whole summer during college, I pumped gas at a Portland-area Chevron. At most gas stations in Oregon and New Jersey and nowhere else, self-service is illegal.
Firsch’s behavior might result from rapid-cycling manic-depressive disorder. Her apparent obsessions, paranoia, weird comments would all be consistent with the manic phase. Her sudden disappearances might represent the depressive phase.
Academia is full of people with the disorder.
Having watched the original crap unfold in realtime, I now can only hope she is institutionalized to get the help she so obviously needs and is just as obviously fighting to avoid.
In one of this woman’s previous emails she said she considered blowing herself up on the steps of the courthouse in, I believe, Philadelphia, but it could have been D.C. I said at the time I think that’s how her sorry saga will end. I still think that. Not to be flip but I think it would be very unwise to get within exploding distance of her.
I can’t believe it took so long! I hope she is not only punished for what she’s done, but sets an example to other crackpots considering similar craziness.
You note on the bail money was correct both times. When posting bail you only have to come up with 10% of the cash. The bail bondsman carries the rest of it. So, a $4000 bond only requires $400.
Back in 1995-1997 I use to visit a golf interest chat room (iGolf) which was supposed to be for people to share their interest in golf (sorry to be redundant here). At first it was but then the subject somehow went from golf, Tiger Woods, the Majors, etcl. to politics, religion, race, liberal versus conservative (remember Clinton?) that too. It got so viscious and so ad hominen in the attacks that even the so called room monitor would have had to have his own FISA court to control the vitriol. I have no idea whatever happened to it but it go to be non-golf and a mental health danger zone.
So, having these trolls pop up and start their s**t (in the immortal words of Dubya) doesn’t suprise me in the least. She ain’t the first and not the last.
Not surprising. But you should know she had a similar weird meltdown on a liberal (UK based, IIRC) group blogsite which didn’t have the “correct” number / percentage of female bloggers. As with her encounter with Prof. Bainbridge she absolutely could not tolerate her math being corrected and wandered into religious and feminist rantings there also. I believe she was, in fact, finally banned. She clearly has a serious DSM-IV diagnosis. Can the court order psych treatment?
Patrick,
BAIL is paid IN FULL to the justice system, while a BOND is usually set at 9%-10% of the bail amount, paid to a bond company who accepts the remainder of the bail amount as risk until the case is commenced. BAIL payments are refunded, while a BOND payment is typically not. Either method works.
As a Eugene liberal, I’m not surprised at this latest development. While many in the blogofear postulated that she’s some hero of the left for her claims to represent us, she’s actually been pretty abusive to people all over the political spectrum, online and off.
Someone told me they saw her on a recent weekend trying to bait people at the (U.S. Sen.)Wayne Morse free speech plaza, which is an informal soapbox that some use to air their views on various matters of the day. And no one was biting as they knew she was poison to any rational discussion.
Personally, I haven’t a clue what she looks like, but I wish I did so I could be certain to avoid even a discussion of the weather with her. The blog that seeks to keep people from hiring her is superfluous to the reality that her rep precedes her like the trail of a slug moving backwards.
My sources indicate her long and continuing pattern of trashing professional associates, many of them highly esteemed scientists and scholars, makes it unlikely that she will attain any position of note.
I don’t care to speculate whether her behavior is driven by a mental condition, parental coddling, or simple sadism. But I gather her actions offline have drawn as much alarm and scrutiny as her online behaviors. And I’d have to guess that since she’ll now be subject to judicial scrutiny, there’ll be as many, if not more, sighs of relief from liberals as conservatives. Her actions, imo, deserve either judicial or medical review - or both - so that an accurate assessment can be made whether she poses a real threat to anyone, and if she does, what consequence is necessary to protect others from harm.
Deb Frisch does sound manic-depressive, as Shannon mentioned. Alcoholism is common in people with bipolar disorder so her excessive drinking (if she really does) may be a symptom, not the reason for her bizarre behavior. Poor judgment and an unrealistic belief in one’s abilities and powers are other signs of bipolar disorder and that sounds like her, too. Her irrational diatribes about Jeff’s child sound like someone with the disease going through a manic episode. The woman probably needs to see a doctor and get on some meds, ASAP.
Shannon Love says that “Firsch’s behavior might result from rapid-cycling manic-depressive disorder.” Well, maybe. That’s one of those newly diagnosed “disorders” that, in my experience, have their origins in the inability of the psychiatric profession to see alcoholism. I’ve been in recovery for a few years now, and I’ve met a lot of people whose own acknowledgment of their addiction was delayed by having received just such a diagnosis from a “mental health professional”. Some of them spent years stringing their docs along, trying to “get the meds right”, when their real problem was the med they were prescribing for themselves.
Firsch’s behavior is pretty classic. I’d put my money on alcohol (or some other self-administered drug), rather than on Prozac deficiency.
I say this not to insult, but I do agree with other commenters:
Frisch seems to have some sort of mental illness. Piling on isn’t helping her or anyone else. Prodding her and feeding this illness is not helping. I don’t know why the whole blogosphere is so amazed by it and feels the need to continue bashing her.
She’s sick. She needs help, and she’s probably not going to get it. But she’s not really relevant and persecuting her only feeds into whatever defective process is going on in her mind.
Nothing to see here… Move along…
Just as legitimate as attempting clinical diagnoses via blog reports, I suggest that either she is inherently evil, or under some sort of demonic possession.
Richard Blumberg,
“Firsch’s behavior might result from rapid-cycling manic-depressive disorder.” Well, maybe. That’s one of those newly diagnosed “disorders” that, in my experience, have their origins in the inability of the psychiatric profession to see alcoholism.
Manic-depression, or Bi-polor disorder is not a “newly diagnosed” disorder. The modern definition is 100-150 years old depending on who you want to give credit for it. It has an established genetic component.
It would be nearly impossible to confuse a major case of the disease with alcoholism. A person in the manic phase doesn’t act anything like an alcoholic. Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant and slows people down. Mania makes people act as if they are on an extended methamphetamine binge. They show tremendous energy and activity and feel wildly optimistic about themselves. Even their physical coordination improves.
Frisch’s seemingly extreme anger at being accurately corrected seems to me the most compelling evidence that she is manic. That’s not something you commonly see in alcoholics but it is textbook manic-depressive.
ShannonLove said,
It would be nearly impossible to confuse a major case of the disease with alcoholism.
I agree. I will admit the those newly sober can “game” the system fairly adequately, someone truly suffering from manic-depression is in a completely different realm.
My brother has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and he’s also an alcoholic who’s been in and out of rehab. I’ve seen the drastic mood swings happen even when he’s been stone-cold sober for weeks. It’s like a switch has been flicked and it can be triggered by even very minor setbacks in his life and often leads to angry, abusive and irrational behavior. I’m not claiming to be able to diagnose Deb Frisch via her blog posts but her writings and actions do sound an awful lot like the manic-depressive behavior I’ve seen in my brother.
I have to agree with QC(above).Demonic posession is as likely as manic depression.
You can’t diagnose either from blog posts. Neither condition can be definitively attributed
“scientifically” as thery both lack a known pathology. Holding her responsible for her actions should be sufficent.
She is nothing but a loony drunk lib. nuf said.
Bi-polar? Alcoholic? Maybe. But for my money I’m betting on a supply of Oregon’s answer to crack…Methamphetamine…Crank. She shows all the classics signs of a tweaker, and it is cheap and plentiful in Oregon and Arizona.
For the record, Oregon does not have bail bondsmen. The State itself takes that role. You only need to provide 10% to the jail to be released, and the truth of the matter is that in Oregon even if you have a bail amount specified, the jail can still release you on a “matrix release” without you putting up a dime. It is not at all unusual for someone to be released on a “matrix” be given a court date, fail to appear and have a warrant issued for that, be arrested again and released again. It’s all a jobs program for cops, lawyers, and social workers.
One minor point that should however be corrected.
The post says that Jeff Goldstein publicized her identity. That isn’t true. She posted on his blog using her own blog as her referent website where she had openly posted all the personal information that became of note in the following week. It was not Jeff Goldstein who even pointed out that the info was there. Many of the people commenting in the threads Frisch was trying to hijack followed her website link without any prompting by others.
She has two mental illnesses. These have been widely written about and studied and easily identifiable. While it may appear to the layman as either Bi-Polar disorder or even Paranoid-Schizophrenia with Delusional tendancies, it is actually a much harder disease to treat. On will start to diminish in just under two years, however the risiduals last a long time. The other is generally a hereditary disease, and when not, is usually contracted amongst college age adults.
The first being BDS, or Bush Derangement Syndrome. The second is known as Liberalism.
BDS is a relatively new disease and therefore hard to treat. Some methods consist of keeping sufferers away from gatherings with other Liberals, making them refrain from reading periodicles such as “The New York Times”, not allowing them to listen to AM radio stations that carry any commentators that are failed commedians and keeping them away from mind altering drugs.
Liberalism has some of the same treatments, however there are some added treatments which are harsher on the patient. These require the patient to actually get an education in history as well as global politics. The require the use of facts, and not just feelings. They also require no singing of “kumbya” or other similar songs and song styles, the avoidance of any college profeesors wearing Birkenstocks, male professors in pony-tail, and refraining from speaking to anyone using the terms “Bushitler”, “Bush Lied”, “Code Pink”, or any current derrogatory statements towards Conservatism and the Republican Party. They are also asked to avoid listening or reading anything by Howard Dean and watching CBS and CNN.
For more information on these and other Hippie diseases, visit:
http://www.gop.com
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com
Take care and remember…the Liberal or BDS sufferer you save, just may be your own son or daughter.
Liberals just get crazy and even more crazier everyday we just might need a insane assilum to put them
Frisch’s behavior is similar in many ways to that of my former best friend who, since the death of her only child 2 years ago, has become the poster child for really nasty behavior. Despite my best intentions, I could no longer stand by giving tacit approval while her language and her overall behavior became more and more vicious and abusive. And of course, she sees herself as the soul of reason and rationality - as I’m sure Deb Frisch sees herself.
From Deb’s point of view, we ARE all out to get her and in her world that is a perfectly reasonable point of view. In her world, we are all plotting against her. Never mind telling her that nobody gives a flip who she is or what she’s doing - Frisch is ABSOLUTELY convinced that we are getting ready to harm her.
Were it not for some of the sadistic and utterly indefensible things she has said and done, I’d probably feel a little sorry for Deb Frisch. But this is a case where incarceration really won’t make a difference and hospitalization for mental disorders is no longer possible in this country in any meaningful way.
I guess the old Quaker custom of “shunning” is our only recourse?
While I believe “mental illness” is a pseudo-scientific bogey, a metaphor regrettably reified, I think Dr. Frisch’s case perhaps provides yet another drop of instantiation for Agatha Christie’s Inspector Japp’s verdict on her tribe: “Psychologists . . . most of ‘em are balmy themselves!” I’m thus sceptical about psychiatry coming to the rescue in her or in countless others’ cases. A newspaper humourist once (paradoxically) put it well when he warned: “Anyone who goes to see a psychiatrist oughtta have his head examined.” Still, though I suspect she (let alone her numerous targets) has really suffered for her alleged criminal folly, the maverick psychiatrist Thomas Szasz was surely right when he observed that “when those who break the law are not punished, those who obey the law are cheated.” So I do hope she both recovers her equilibrium and learns her lesson.
In Oregon Telephone Harassment requires that a person either call a person for no communicative purpose, or call a person after being told not to. Doesn’t have anything to do with the Internet.
Will any blogger who has had comments posted from Deb, or anyone claiming to be Deb, please write me so we can compare IP addresses?
I believe there is a simpler definition of this woman’s behavior, other than that of one or more mental disorders, and that is IMMATURITY! She acts more like a spoiled child than someone suffering from a mental illness.
I too use to have periods of hyperactivity followed by periods of depression very similar to bipolarism; like running around, jumping around down, and yelling and screaming my head off, only to burst into tears when mommy told me it was time for my nap!
I too use to stalk people; like mommy and daddy when they went outside or anyone that held a glass of something, it didn’t matter what, in their hands.
I too use to insult people; like my sisters, who were “poopies!”
I too use to write terrible things that I soon regretted; mostly stick figures on the walls using crayons, which I then had to scrub off because mommy was really mad!
Activities like these were attributed to childhood, in my day, and it wasn’t considered a treatable mental disorder. It was actually considered normal! And, like most people, I grew up and stopped acting like that.
This woman, and others like her, are simply suffering from a lack of maturity and not some treatable mental disorder as some seem to believe. You bring dishonor to the true sufferers of mental disorders when you drag them down to her level.
She’s a spoiled brat, plain and simple, and nothing will change that.
At the very beginning of this debacle (July I think) a blogger gave Goldstein some advice, to wit:
At the beginning of this debacle (July I think) a blogger gave Goldstein some advice, to wit: Don’t make eye contact with her (Frisch) because this is all going to turn out badly. He was correct. All the speculation on alcoholism, syndromes, drugs, etc. is just that — speculation. The only real facts we know are: her blog behavior has been going on for years; her blog behavior has been directed against numerous bloggers, primarily but not exclusively against those on the right; her blog language is vicious, unprincipled, loathesome and vile; her personal life is a disaster (gay feminist, lover broke off their relationship sometime prior to July, only momma loves her now); her professional life is a train wreck (East Coast academic, once gave classes on terrorism to the FBI, denied tenure, presently an out-of-work former ‘adjunct professor’, that is to say, a temp nobody); constant lurker, flamer and troll, banned repeatedly; next stop the crossbar hotel; unrepentant bitch.
Stop giving her a pass due to alcoholism. Stop the get-out-of-jail-free alibis. Enough with the speculative psycho-babble. She may in fact suffer from one of these afflictions. Or more than one. Or none. My guess would be none. She is a troll. She has gone too far, got caught, received media attention, loved it, and now craves it. She has not stopped, nor will she, until the book deal, or Babs agrees to play her in the movie. Then she’ll take the money and tour with Cindy Sheehan. If she stops blogging, stops posting, and leaves Jeff and Satchel Goldstein alone, super. But let’s not let her off the hook just yet. She needs to be accountable for being a bitch, not a drunk.
Nice Post.
That was well said. Always appreciate your indepth views. Keep up the great work!
John