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	<title>Comments on: All The President&#8217;s Glenn?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn</link>
	<description>Putting the blogosphere under a magnifying glass</description>
	<pubDate>Tue,  2 Dec 2008 04:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: On Different Internets at Blog P.I.</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-1750</link>
		<dc:creator>On Different Internets at Blog P.I.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-1750</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Is Reynolds anti-left? No doubt &#8212; he&#8217;s wingnut enough for the moonbats to write him off. (The project of exposing him as a stealth reactionary certainly has its adherents, but that&#8217;s old news.) But he&#8217;s not pro-right enough for the serious GOP activists in the blogosphere to rely on him to push their agenda. To the extent that Reynolds is a political activist at all, he seems to prefer policy reforms to party-building (c.f. PorkBusters). [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Is Reynolds anti-left? No doubt &#8212; he&#8217;s wingnut enough for the moonbats to write him off. (The project of exposing him as a stealth reactionary certainly has its adherents, but that&#8217;s old news.) But he&#8217;s not pro-right enough for the serious GOP activists in the blogosphere to rely on him to push their agenda. To the extent that Reynolds is a political activist at all, he seems to prefer policy reforms to party-building (c.f. PorkBusters). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Owen</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-39</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Glenn, you have beautiful rhetorical misdirection in your response.  You write, "But to many people, myself included, implying that the NYT wants to help terrorists or that they’re on their “side” is deranged recklessness with some extremely dangerous and stupid rhetoric."&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The problem is that in the quotation to which you are responding in this passage never accuses, or even implies, that the NYT "WANTS" to aid terrorists.  In restating the way you do, you misconstrue the original point: instead of addressing the possibility that, whether intended or not, the NYT may, as a downstream consequence of their reporting, empower terrorists, you reframe the question in terms of whether the NYT actively joins "sides" with terrorism.  Clearly, the NYT in no way, shape, or form means to aid terrorists; that does not, however, logically eliminate the possibility that that may, in fact, be doing so.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Now, that casuistry aside, the right-leaning blog crowd are a bit...rabid.  Still, no more so than the left-leaning blog community.  Cheers.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn, you have beautiful rhetorical misdirection in your response.  You write, &#8220;But to many people, myself included, implying that the NYT wants to help terrorists or that they’re on their “side” is deranged recklessness with some extremely dangerous and stupid rhetoric.&#8221;</p>
<p>The problem is that in the quotation to which you are responding in this passage never accuses, or even implies, that the NYT &#8220;WANTS&#8221; to aid terrorists.  In restating the way you do, you misconstrue the original point: instead of addressing the possibility that, whether intended or not, the NYT may, as a downstream consequence of their reporting, empower terrorists, you reframe the question in terms of whether the NYT actively joins &#8220;sides&#8221; with terrorism.  Clearly, the NYT in no way, shape, or form means to aid terrorists; that does not, however, logically eliminate the possibility that that may, in fact, be doing so.</p>
<p>Now, that casuistry aside, the right-leaning blog crowd are a bit&#8230;rabid.  Still, no more so than the left-leaning blog community.  Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Straw</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Straw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-38</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How can any rational political commentator accuse Reynolds of being a conservative agitator? I've known conservatives, I've been a conservative, and Reynolds is no conservative.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The comments by Jo above were accurate - Greenwald is drawing lines in the sand and saying 'you're either for us or against us'. I thought the Democrats were supposed to be the party of nuance and careful calibration.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What a maroon.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can any rational political commentator accuse Reynolds of being a conservative agitator? I&#8217;ve known conservatives, I&#8217;ve been a conservative, and Reynolds is no conservative.</p>
<p>The comments by Jo above were accurate - Greenwald is drawing lines in the sand and saying &#8216;you&#8217;re either for us or against us&#8217;. I thought the Democrats were supposed to be the party of nuance and careful calibration.</p>
<p>What a maroon.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-37</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So, to recap:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The NYT publishes top-secret details on how we track the finances of terrorist organizations. Reynolds and other bloggers respond that this empowers terrorists. This is nearly indisputable. How could knowing the ins-and-outs of our defenses &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; help them?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But Greenwald doesn't focus on whether the Times was justified in its decision to publish. He'd rather stand aghast that rightwing blogs would so cavelierly toss around mean words like "reckless," "extremely dangerous," or "stupid." How anyone but extremists talk like this in a civil society? And, after all, extremism must be condemned in the strongest terms.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Oh, wait. I guess it's okay to use those words. As long as we're talking about extremists, rather than the New York Times. As long as we're talking about critics of media orthodoxy, not those who give away secrets to the enemy.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, to recap:</p>
<p>The NYT publishes top-secret details on how we track the finances of terrorist organizations. Reynolds and other bloggers respond that this empowers terrorists. This is nearly indisputable. How could knowing the ins-and-outs of our defenses <em>not</em> help them?</p>
<p>But Greenwald doesn&#8217;t focus on whether the Times was justified in its decision to publish. He&#8217;d rather stand aghast that rightwing blogs would so cavelierly toss around mean words like &#8220;reckless,&#8221; &#8220;extremely dangerous,&#8221; or &#8220;stupid.&#8221; How anyone but extremists talk like this in a civil society? And, after all, extremism must be condemned in the strongest terms.</p>
<p>Oh, wait. I guess it&#8217;s okay to use those words. As long as we&#8217;re talking about extremists, rather than the New York Times. As long as we&#8217;re talking about critics of media orthodoxy, not those who give away secrets to the enemy.</p>
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		<title>By: brett</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-36</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;God, I wish people would stop giving Greenwald oxygen.  Just let him die already.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God, I wish people would stop giving Greenwald oxygen.  Just let him die already.</p>
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		<title>By: Already In Progress at Blog P.I. (beta)</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Already In Progress at Blog P.I. (beta)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-33</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...]  [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The False God</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>The False God</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-32</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;"As its leading bloggers vividly illustrate, pro-Bush 'conservatism' is a highly authoritarian movement which seeks to vest unlimited and unrestrained power in their Leader."&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That's pretty rich. Because if we agree with some of Bush's underlying premises, but not with his actions, we're still tantamount to electing and supporting him as Fuhrer of Axis Amerika.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Being able to see good logic and reasoning, even in the thoughts of men you would consider wrong or just plain evil, is something many people lack.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Example:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hitler was a profound and supreme orator. He was capable of moving crowds with gestures and tone as a maestro of an orchestra leads.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I do not, however, think Hitler was a good man. Just a good orator. He had an excellent grasp and understanding of his countrymen.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The same can be said of Bush and his actions:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;He has displayed an excellent grasp of the actions and motivations of America's enemies. That he's willing to realize what's in plain sight is admirable. That he has been willing to act is also commendable.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;However, he has also committed a lot of intellectual and political atrocities. Stem cell, gay marriage, "Religion of Peace", etc. I am far from being a Bush groupie, but by the logic you follow, agreeing with the "War on Terror" makes me a rightwing nutjob, a Republican sycophant, and Bush's greatest sponsor.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Well, I guess the Democratic party needs some kind of platform.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;~~~&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Democrats in 2008!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Because if you disagree with us, we'll call you nasty names and imply you're a fascist!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;How HAVE the Democrats been losing all these years with a policy like this?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As its leading bloggers vividly illustrate, pro-Bush &#8216;conservatism&#8217; is a highly authoritarian movement which seeks to vest unlimited and unrestrained power in their Leader.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s pretty rich. Because if we agree with some of Bush&#8217;s underlying premises, but not with his actions, we&#8217;re still tantamount to electing and supporting him as Fuhrer of Axis Amerika.</p>
<p>Being able to see good logic and reasoning, even in the thoughts of men you would consider wrong or just plain evil, is something many people lack.</p>
<p>Example:</p>
<p>Hitler was a profound and supreme orator. He was capable of moving crowds with gestures and tone as a maestro of an orchestra leads.</p>
<p>I do not, however, think Hitler was a good man. Just a good orator. He had an excellent grasp and understanding of his countrymen.</p>
<p>The same can be said of Bush and his actions:</p>
<p>He has displayed an excellent grasp of the actions and motivations of America&#8217;s enemies. That he&#8217;s willing to realize what&#8217;s in plain sight is admirable. That he has been willing to act is also commendable.</p>
<p>However, he has also committed a lot of intellectual and political atrocities. Stem cell, gay marriage, &#8220;Religion of Peace&#8221;, etc. I am far from being a Bush groupie, but by the logic you follow, agreeing with the &#8220;War on Terror&#8221; makes me a rightwing nutjob, a Republican sycophant, and Bush&#8217;s greatest sponsor.</p>
<p>Well, I guess the Democratic party needs some kind of platform.</p>
<p>~~~</p>
<p>Democrats in 2008!</p>
<p>Because if you disagree with us, we&#8217;ll call you nasty names and imply you&#8217;re a fascist!</p>
<p>How HAVE the Democrats been losing all these years with a policy like this?</p>
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		<title>By: The Monster</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>The Monster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-31</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It is not possible to rationally debate with people who believe that moral superiority derives from victimhood.  Greenwald looks at the Reynolds post on NYT and Nicaragua and sees "Rethuglikkkans call anyone who disagrees with them 'Traitors'", because that creates victims.  That Reynolds was referring to the Sandanista/Contra confusion isn't important, because Greenwald's narrative is the one that counts.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;We see the same thing in the periodic controversy over the Confederate Battle Flag.  Because the 'Civil Rights' crowd sees it is a symbol for racism, (making them victims and therefore empowered) anyone who uses it is therefore a racist, no matter what the intent of the person who uses the flag means by it.  Ditto for all the other issues over which the Civil War was fought:  "States' Rights" is now a 'code word' for racism, as is opposition to high taxes.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The reflex to play the Victim Card and thereby trump rational discourse has gotten to the point that 'racist' effectively means 'someone winning an argument with a liberal'.  It's the modern equivalent of accusing someone of being a witch; the accusation cannot be refuted logically (for it is an illogical charge), and any character witnesses for the defense will be charged with racism themselves, so as to make their support meaningless.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In the Cartoon Wars, the ideas that the cartoonists meant to convey (some of those cartoons don't even depict M. at all; other cartoons subsequently added by Muslim agitators are used to retroactively taint the others...) are irrelevant.  The only thing that matters is that "We are Outraged!".  (Blessed indeed are the Outraged, for theirs is the Moral High Ground, from which the range of their Katyushas is improved somewhat.)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The problem with this mentality is that there are no objective criteria for victimization.  A member of an officially approved victim group can spout the most hateful rhetoric, and be reflexively defended, while every utterance from the dextrohemisphere is tainted by the Original Sin of having issued from a diseased mind.  The 'real motive' of the writer is always imputed to be as evil as possible.  This then builds up a repository of 'proof' of the inherent evilness, which is used to justify future assumption of intent.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Of course, since my remarks above can be so easily twisted to write me of as a racist myself, I need not fear that I've had any positive effect on the Greenwalds of the world.  Besides, I used the word 'ditto' above, which obviously makes me a Limbot.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not possible to rationally debate with people who believe that moral superiority derives from victimhood.  Greenwald looks at the Reynolds post on NYT and Nicaragua and sees &#8220;Rethuglikkkans call anyone who disagrees with them &#8216;Traitors&#8217;&#8221;, because that creates victims.  That Reynolds was referring to the Sandanista/Contra confusion isn&#8217;t important, because Greenwald&#8217;s narrative is the one that counts.</p>
<p>We see the same thing in the periodic controversy over the Confederate Battle Flag.  Because the &#8216;Civil Rights&#8217; crowd sees it is a symbol for racism, (making them victims and therefore empowered) anyone who uses it is therefore a racist, no matter what the intent of the person who uses the flag means by it.  Ditto for all the other issues over which the Civil War was fought:  &#8220;States&#8217; Rights&#8221; is now a &#8216;code word&#8217; for racism, as is opposition to high taxes.  </p>
<p>The reflex to play the Victim Card and thereby trump rational discourse has gotten to the point that &#8216;racist&#8217; effectively means &#8217;someone winning an argument with a liberal&#8217;.  It&#8217;s the modern equivalent of accusing someone of being a witch; the accusation cannot be refuted logically (for it is an illogical charge), and any character witnesses for the defense will be charged with racism themselves, so as to make their support meaningless.</p>
<p>In the Cartoon Wars, the ideas that the cartoonists meant to convey (some of those cartoons don&#8217;t even depict M. at all; other cartoons subsequently added by Muslim agitators are used to retroactively taint the others&#8230;) are irrelevant.  The only thing that matters is that &#8220;We are Outraged!&#8221;.  (Blessed indeed are the Outraged, for theirs is the Moral High Ground, from which the range of their Katyushas is improved somewhat.)</p>
<p>The problem with this mentality is that there are no objective criteria for victimization.  A member of an officially approved victim group can spout the most hateful rhetoric, and be reflexively defended, while every utterance from the dextrohemisphere is tainted by the Original Sin of having issued from a diseased mind.  The &#8216;real motive&#8217; of the writer is always imputed to be as evil as possible.  This then builds up a repository of &#8216;proof&#8217; of the inherent evilness, which is used to justify future assumption of intent.</p>
<p>Of course, since my remarks above can be so easily twisted to write me of as a racist myself, I need not fear that I&#8217;ve had any positive effect on the Greenwalds of the world.  Besides, I used the word &#8216;ditto&#8217; above, which obviously makes me a Limbot.</p>
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		<title>By: submandave</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>submandave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-30</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The subtlety that Glenn G. has managed to obscure is that the offensive Glenn R. quote is "the NYT 'can’t even figure out what side &lt;b&gt;we’re&lt;/b&gt; on.'" (emphasis added)  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Neither the statement nor the linked item says anything at all about the NYT's "patriotism" or defacto aid to terrorists (intentional or otherwise), but rather challenges their accuracy concerning well know historical facts and what it says about their much self-lauded system of editors and fact checkers.  Glenn R.'s point would be just as valid had he referenced an article stating the Earth was the fouth planet from the Sun by writing "the NYT 'can’t even figure out what planet we’re on.'"&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The subtlety that Glenn G. has managed to obscure is that the offensive Glenn R. quote is &#8220;the NYT &#8216;can’t even figure out what side <b>we’re</b> on.&#8217;&#8221; (emphasis added)  </p>
<p>Neither the statement nor the linked item says anything at all about the NYT&#8217;s &#8220;patriotism&#8221; or defacto aid to terrorists (intentional or otherwise), but rather challenges their accuracy concerning well know historical facts and what it says about their much self-lauded system of editors and fact checkers.  Glenn R.&#8217;s point would be just as valid had he referenced an article stating the Earth was the fouth planet from the Sun by writing &#8220;the NYT &#8216;can’t even figure out what planet we’re on.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Wildmonk</title>
		<link>http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Wildmonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogpi.net/all-the-presidents-glenn#comment-29</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Greenwald seems to be the latest incarnation of the fire-breathing, outraged lefty accusing the right blogosphere of inciting violence.  In the real world, Democratic partisans scream about Republican vote suppression while they slash tires, attack Republican campaign offices and stuff ballot boxes (St. Louis, Detroit) with dead people's votes.  In the blogosphere we have Greenwald, DU, KOS and Maha.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It is pure projection.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Mr. Greenwald, why do you wish to place the political commitments and activities of the NYT beyond reproach?  It may be perfectly true that they are not "siding with the terrorists." However, to simply gloss over their attacks on our intelligence collection programs as if there is nothing to note shows a profound inability to understand the world as it really is.  People may die because of these exposures.  You and the NYT apparently don't care because it makes you feel good to pretend otherwise.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Is it any wonder that you are running into angry opposition from people more forward-looking and mature than yourself?  No one is taking away your precious rights, Mr. Greenwald, but you are damn right that we are questioning your judgement and looking for ways to minimize the damage that you and your kind do to this nation.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greenwald seems to be the latest incarnation of the fire-breathing, outraged lefty accusing the right blogosphere of inciting violence.  In the real world, Democratic partisans scream about Republican vote suppression while they slash tires, attack Republican campaign offices and stuff ballot boxes (St. Louis, Detroit) with dead people&#8217;s votes.  In the blogosphere we have Greenwald, DU, KOS and Maha.  </p>
<p>It is pure projection.</p>
<p>Mr. Greenwald, why do you wish to place the political commitments and activities of the NYT beyond reproach?  It may be perfectly true that they are not &#8220;siding with the terrorists.&#8221; However, to simply gloss over their attacks on our intelligence collection programs as if there is nothing to note shows a profound inability to understand the world as it really is.  People may die because of these exposures.  You and the NYT apparently don&#8217;t care because it makes you feel good to pretend otherwise.</p>
<p>Is it any wonder that you are running into angry opposition from people more forward-looking and mature than yourself?  No one is taking away your precious rights, Mr. Greenwald, but you are damn right that we are questioning your judgement and looking for ways to minimize the damage that you and your kind do to this nation.</p>
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